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  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) in Khon Kaen
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AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) in Khon Kaen

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Stormin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stormin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 09:30
Dear Vicco,
               I studied Psychology and was taugth never to listen to songs when you are depressed or in need of help! Although the lyrics are good to listen to, when you are in need of assistance they steer you in the wrong directions or worsen your problems! It's always best to listen to them when you are in a good mood or for relaxation.
If your last posting was in fun then please accept my apologies.
Stormin



Never argue with an idiot, people watching may not know who the idiot is!
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tcris52 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcris52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 10:35
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

A couple years ago I ran across a book called "12 Steps on the Buddha's Path: Bill, Buddha, and We" by Laura S (ISBN 0-86171-281-1). She relates the 12-step process in terms of Buddhism...non-theistically.



Another great book on this subject is One Breath at a Time: Buddhism and the Twelve Steps by Kevin Griffin.

Ajahn Santikaro's  recently came here to do a workshop on "Buddhism and the 12 Steps.

 Talks are downloadable here -

http://www.liberationpark.org/audiox/12step.htm


I've got a copy of that book. It's an e-book and I had forgotten about it since it's on my Kindle, which I have placed into retirement since getting my Sony Reader.

There's also a web site devoted to the topic: <http://the12stepbuddhist.com/>. It's somewhat devoted to selling the author's book of the same name but there are podcasts, webcasts, videos, etc. that might be of interest. You can set up your RSS readers (I use iTunes) to get feeds for the podcasts.

Tony


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Vicco View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 16:48
Originally posted by Stormin Stormin wrote:

Dear Vicco,
               I studied Psychology and was taugth never to listen to songs when you are depressed or in need of help! Although the lyrics are good to listen to, when you are in need of assistance they steer you in the wrong directions or worsen your problems! It's always best to listen to them when you are in a good mood or for relaxation.
If your last posting was in fun then please accept my apologies.


Hi Stormin, 
You are  probably quite correct. I can imagine that someone who is really down could get themselves even more down by listening to doleful, depressing lyrics.  Fortunately I have never suffered from depression or even significant mood swings.  Like most people I have had my challenges and difficulties in life, but after a series of very close calls during my military service,  I learned to accept " hard times" with equaniminity.   My previous post about : We are sheep  without a shephard  etc was not a joke.  This  song written by two members of the Eagles back in 1994 is a commentary on much of modern society.   People who can not seem to make their way, and seek out all kinds of support mechanisms to give themselves comfort.  The  song even makes a reference to  the "Branch Dividian" and its leader David Koresh.  They perished in a fire at Waco Texas. They were a far out religious cult who believed that Koresh was a kind of new Messiah.  (sheep without a shepherd!)  The followers of Jimmy Jones who committed suicide by drinking poisoned "Kool Aid" were something similar.   For people like myself it's difficult to grasp what
makes people follow lunatics like this. They are no doubt desperate for "acceptance" and "community". but at what price?  Even Charles Manson was a kind of latter day Messiah to the unfortunate weak and insecure people who followed him. He even managed to persuade them to commit a series of horrific murders---to what end?...so he could rule the world basically.  Strangely enough a song influenced Manson to behave the way he did.  Helter Skelter, by the Beatles convinced him that the Beatles were "messengers" and this song was somehow telling him that he should instigate  a "race war"  in America, which the blacks would win, but because they were not really intelligent enough to run things, they would need Charlie Manson to head thing up.  I guess some people should just not listen to songs...Confused
I think  maybe I'm off topic a bit but dependence on alcohol is just another facet of  someone losing their way and needing help. It's a good thing that AA can be a "shepherd" to guide them back....a genuine shepherd instead of the false ones mentioned above.


Vicco



"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 17:05
I think  maybe I'm off topic a bit but dependence on alcohol is just another facet of  someone losing their way and needing help. It's a good thing that AA can be a "shepherd" to guide them back....a genuine shepherd instead of the false ones mentioned above.

Anyone can be dependent on alcohol but that doesn't mean they are an alcoholic.
Alcoholics have a different physiology and psychology to 'normal' people.

Alcoholism is not a weakness of any sort. That's like saying leukemia is a facet of someone losing their way and needing help.

There's a HUGE difference between someone who is a heavy dinker, someone who is dependent on alcohol, and an alcoholic. For example, heavy drinkers may be able to quit booze by will-power or reducing the number of drinks they take whereas an alcoholic can't as they have a disease of the body, mind and soul.
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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 17:19
BTW - admin - I can't start a new topic on any of the forums and can't  contact the webmaster. I don't seem to be able to reply to any topic in the visitors section either. Can you fix this please?Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 17:22
Johnny,
I think you are trying to "split hairs"   I used the word dependence in exactly the same  way as Alcoholic is defined.  "Alcohol dependence"   Of course there are people who drink a lot  more than they should but do not necessarily become true alcoholics, and alcoholism is a "weakness" in the sense that the person lacks the ability to resist alcohol.....

Alcoholism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaump to: navigation, search

Alcoholism
Classification and external resources
Alcoholism, also known as alcohol dependence,[1][2] is a disabling addictive disorder.








Alcoholism, also known as alcohol dependence,[1][2] is a disabling addictive disorder.



Vicco



"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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tcris52 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcris52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 18:34
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:


There's a HUGE difference between someone who is a heavy dinker, someone who is dependent on alcohol, and an alcoholic. For example, heavy drinkers may be able to quit booze by will-power or reducing the number of drinks they take whereas an alcoholic can't as they have a disease of the body, mind and soul.

NOT TRUE!

I quit drinking, solely by will power, 20+ years ago and I'm still an alcoholic. Then I was an alcoholic who was a heavy drinker who was dependent on alcohol. Now I'm an alcoholic who doesn't drink. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rexall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 19:00

Wed 5 May 10, 4:49 pm

I think the more modern approach to addictions does not emphasize these distinctions (problem drinker, dependent, alcoholic) as much as previously.   For one thing, if you fall down and hit your head, or crash your car into someone, or beat your spouse, or get a liver disease, or mess up on your job, such distinctions are pretty useless, especially to your victims.  And no matter what type of theory or model of substance abuse you prefer, the cure is always the same:  You put the plug in the jug, and leave it there.  Then you go about the little business of repairing whatever you have wrecked in your life.  Of course, at this stage, some have more of a mess to deal with than others both in terms of themselves and what they have done or failed to do.  But I'll leave it there because that is the beginning of a new thread.
 
Aloha,
 
Rex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baby maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 21:21
 
There is an absolute truth in the previous posts. The issue of free will has always plagued man, the choice between short term pleasure or gain against long term goals and character.
 
In the final analysis, there really is no choice. It just a matter of how long we are going to embrace the same destructive behaviour...
 
as toris52 in a previous thread cautioned....''we, as people repeat the same mistakes ''.
 
We repeat the same mistakes, until there comes a day, where the pain is so great, there is no option but to surrender our free will and seek help.
 
Now those of you out there who jump to the conclusion, that one goes chasing after the Mansons, the Jimmy Jones and such, you are only partly right, some poor souls are so lost that they desperately attache themselves to these Dem-Gods, to find only grief and destruction....for these Dem-Gods have no power only force, for true power resides within and is God given.
 
Of you who have never been to edge, never had the cocked gun in your mouth, never the rope on the beam overhead, never despaired of life, never fallen into an spiritual abyss so devastating that the next breath is an agony...you will find this idea fantastic...''normal people do not respond that way'' ...that is what the spiritually crushed, alcoholic, drug dependant victims of our societies, continually hear, that and ''why don't you pull your self together''....this rigour passes for compassion in our societies.
 
The reason, it is so, is that the victims who litter or crises centers, our hospices, our mental institutions...terrify society. There is always the knowledge in each and everyone, that the smallest mistake or life accident can propel each and everyone to such an horrendous destination. 
 
I am a survivor of such and outcome....I talk glibly of the journey...I make light of it...for nobody really wants to know....the destruction is profoundly life altering, and it frightens ''normal men''...there's that word again....''normal men''.
 
Give thanks to who ever, or what ever you believe in, that you don't understand what I am talking about.....to those of you who have been this journey...God bless.
 
                                             SUPPORT A.A.  
                      THEY DO GREAT WORK AND ARE TRUELY BLESSED. 
 
I know most of you guys think I am a ''God bother''....it may be the truth....it depends on you point of view....I am just grateful to have survived...
 
and have the wonderful life I have today....to have the opportunity to share with you...     
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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 21:24
Originally posted by tcris52 tcris52 wrote:

Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:


There's a HUGE difference between someone who is a heavy dinker, someone who is dependent on alcohol, and an alcoholic. For example, heavy drinkers may be able to quit booze by will-power or reducing the number of drinks they take whereas an alcoholic can't as they have a disease of the body, mind and soul.

NOT TRUE!

I quit drinking, solely by will power, 20+ years ago and I'm still an alcoholic. Then I was an alcoholic who was a heavy drinker who was dependent on alcohol. Now I'm an alcoholic who doesn't drink. 




I know hundreds of alcoholics and not one of them managed by will-power alone, myself included - we must be different types of alcoholic.

The following explains well, in my opinion, the different types of alcoholic.(AA BIG BOOK)

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt2.pdf



 

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