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Alcohol & drugs (was 3 day Bar Closure)

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rexall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rexall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 12 at 16:53
Fri 20 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

 
 
 
My opinions here are entirely my own, and I have  been careful to try to support them with facts and readily available information about alcohol and drug use in contemporary culture. I do not speak for nor as a member of  Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) nor any other organization.  From it's earliest days 75 years ago, AA has followed a strict policy of having no opinions on "outside issues."  Considering the sort of irrational vitriol and "straw man" attacks this thread has generated, that may have been a wise strategy. AA is open to all, and has no requirements for membership other than a desire to stop drinking and using. It's only purpose is to help people achieve and maintain sobriety. 
 
 
 
It is unfortunate if anything I have written has been misinterpreted as directed toward any specific individual or individuals, or as an attempt to define what anyone should or should not do.
 
 
 
XeReX


Edited by rexall - 20 Apr 12 at 16:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 12 at 17:43
Originally posted by rexall rexall wrote:

Fri 20 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

My opinions here are entirely my own, and I have  been careful to try to support them with facts and readily available information about alcohol and drug use in contemporary culture. I do not speak for nor as a member of  Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) nor any other organization.  From it's earliest days 75 years ago, AA has followed a strict policy of having no opinions on "outside issues."  Considering the sort of irrational vitriol and "straw man" attacks this thread has generated, that may have been a wise strategy. AA is open to all, and has no requirements for membership other than a desire to stop drinking and using. It's only purpose is to help people achieve and maintain sobriety. 

It is unfortunate if anything I have written has been misinterpreted as directed toward any specific individual or individuals, or as an attempt to define what anyone should or should not do.
 
XeReX
 
I thought you did rather well considering the position you were taking was something like a Hasidic Rabbi getting up to preach in the Finsbury Mosque before Friday prayers. 
 
   You can never tell people addicted to alcohol that they are addicts......and most of the rest of us that drink; even in moderation can feel a bit uncomfortable about facing this subject.....because you can never be 100% sure about any of this stuff.     People don't like to feel discomfort about something they enjoy and it's an uncomfortable thing to face up to.   The result is usually an outpouring of defensive statements about how we don't need someone preaching at us....or how none of this BS could possibly apply to ME......
 
One thing you can always be sure of.  Any time you write about anything of a serious matter on farang forums....you will be ridiculed by some, ignored by many and applauded by a very few.   I don't believe I've ever been in the midst of such a large collection of creatures with Ostrich syndrome anywhere or anytime before.  
 
A great many expats are in denial about many things,  and they hate to face the challenges of the realities that exist right in front of them.    You can see this in threads everywhere,  about financial matters,  health concerns, certain aspects of Thai living, and many other issues which are really important to maintaining a long and happy stay in this somewhat problematic corner of the world.    Good advise will always be ignored in favor of bad advise---because the bad advise will generally fit the existing mindset....which of course leads us right back to denial..Sleepy
 
 
 
Vicco



"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerryLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 12 at 18:15
Are the three days almost up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rexall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 12 at 18:40
Originally posted by Vicco Vicco wrote:

I thought you did rather well considering the position you were taking was something like a Hasidic Rabbi getting up to preach in the Finsbury Mosque before Friday prayers.
Shalom!
 
LOL LOL LOL LOL


Edited by rexall - 20 Apr 12 at 18:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KK Veteran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 05:09
Reformed smokers,drug addicts,alcoholics and born again Christian's all have a mission to change the world. It's a bit like the Mormons who come to Thailand to try and convert the Buddhists. All those yellow signs stuck high up on power poles around KK are a waste of time and space but it keeps them occupied.

Obama must be happy the US right wingers chose Romney.

If you want to save lives, Rex and co, get stuck in to Thai drivers. More people die from traffic accidents in Thailand than alcohol and it's all down to lack of police control on the mainstream who have never taken a test or training. Electricity is another killer area and I'm amazed what Thai's can do with the lethal stuff. Beer does not kill many in the land of smiles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rexall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 07:28
Quote Reformed smokers,drug addicts,alcoholics and born again Christian's all have a mission to change the world . . .
Really?  Every single one of us?  That's very interesting, indeed!  I wonder exactly how you have determined that?    Sorry to disappoint you, but I have no such mission!  I am rather uninterested in what other people do or do not do.  I do not tell others what they should or should not do.  I realize that some really want that to be what I am saying and where I am coming from.  However, if you read carefully, I have done no such thing.  The fact is I don't spend a lot of time thinking about this and I rarely ever discuss it.  I did not start this thread! I have only ever reacted to what others have written, and attempted to correct a lot of misstatements and misinformation.
 
For example : 
Quote More people die from traffic accidents in Thailand than alcohol . . .
 
This is just a bunch of crap!  At least 35% of all traffic fatalities in the U.S.--and probably the same or higher world-wide, probably more in Thailand--involve a blood alcohol level of .08%, the legal definition of intoxication in the U.S.  This figure does not include fatalities where the driver was impaired but under .08%, nor does it include the many more accidents which resulted in injury but not death.  Nor does it include the countless "minor" accidents where only minor injuries and property damage resulted.
 
I understand that facts such as these make some people uncomfortable.  I'm sorry about that, but I didn't just pull them out of my ass, they are a matter of public record, no further away than Google. And it is not my "mission" to  "ram them down anyone's throat" as some people here feel.  People here are entirely free to try to advance inaccurate information . . . and I am free to correct it.
 
Quote Obama must be happy the US right wingers chose Romney.
Actually, I believe Mr. Obama would have been much happier if Mr. Santorum got the nomination. Although it is hard to know exactly what these guys are really thinking, Romney appears to be much more moderate than Santorum and much less inclined to allow his religious beliefs to drive his political policies. 
 
But what is this comment about, anyway?  A dig at Mormons?
 
XeReX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DNPBC0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 08:28
I was about to make the same point as Rex regarding the contribution of alcohol to road traffic accidents.  Just for the record, I smoke a pipe and drink alcohol, I am not a Mormon, and I am not a reformed anything of any importance.

Over the 7 days of this year's Songran, 38.76% of the road traffic accidents are reported to have been associated with drunk driving:
http://www.richardbarrow.com/2012/04/full-road-accident-statistics-for-songkran-201
A similar problem exists elsewhere, the USA for example. The 2010 USA fatality rates associated with driving while over the legal blood alcohol limit can be found here:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811606.pdf

I am not defending the general standard of driving in Thailand.  The overall road fatality rate for Thailand is very high compared with other countries, but a good start could be made on reducing it if people did not drink and drive.

Peter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 08:48
Originally posted by DNPBC0 DNPBC0 wrote:

I was about to make the same point as Rex regarding the contribution of alcohol to road traffic accidents.  Just for the record, I smoke a pipe and drink alcohol, I am not a Mormon, and I am not a reformed anything of any importance.

Over the 7 days of this year's Songran, 38.76% of the road traffic accidents are reported to have been associated with drunk driving:
http://www.richardbarrow.com/2012/04/full-road-accident-statistics-for-songkran-201
A similar problem exists elsewhere, the USA for example. The 2010 USA fatality rates associated with driving while over the legal blood alcohol limit can be found here:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811606.pdf

I am not defending the general standard of driving in Thailand.  The overall road fatality rate for Thailand is very high compared with other countries, but a good start could be made on reducing it if people did not drink and drive.

Peter
.....and not only is it a problem with respect to driving, it is a major public health problem and one of the pricniple drivers of domestic violence and crime in general.....
 

Alcohol consumption and control in Thailand

J Bung-on Ritthiphakdee
Thai Health Promotion Foundation

In Thailand, alcohol has been used for rituals for centuries. However, it has now become a major public health problem. It is a significant impediment to the economic development and social well being of the people.

According to the United Nation's Food & Agriculture Organization (FAO), Thailand ranks fifth worldwide in consumption of alcohol, behind South Korea, the Bahamas, Taiwan and Bermuda.

Consumption

Available evidence suggests that the number of alcohol drinkers is increasing. The latest survey in 2001 found that the number of drinkers increased from 13.7 million in 1996 to 15.3 million in 2001 or increased 2.3 per cent per year.

Among these 15.3 million drinkers, 13.0 million are males (55.9 per cent of the same age group) and 2.3 million are females (9.8 per cent). The highest prevalence is among people at 25-39 years of age (39.3 per cent), and young people at 15-24 (21.6 per cent).

 
 
 
Vicco



"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Changnoi1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 09:52
Alcohol as major cause of road accidents?
What about very bad driving attitude combined with very bad roads, bad road signs and no good public lights?

Although all together Thai bring in a lot of tax money but their government in their wisdom rather spends that money on BMW's instead of road safety and education.

Chang Noi

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DNPBC0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 12 at 10:33
Originally posted by Changnoi1 Changnoi1 wrote:

Alcohol as major cause of road accidents?
What about very bad driving attitude combined with very bad roads, bad road signs and no good public lights?

Although all together Thai bring in a lot of tax money but their government in their wisdom rather spends that money on BMW's instead of road safety and education.

Chang Noi



.... and while we're at it, what about the price of fish?  If you bother to read back, you will see that I was responding to an earlier post which appeared to ignore the contribution of alcohol to road traffic accidents.  I very deliberately did not say that other factors are not involved or that they were unimportant.
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